Smackdown Tuesday! Contest Experience
Have you ever entered a contest?
Kendal: Well, I have. Only two and they were both this year. The first one I got such drastic differing points that I was completely turned off contests from that point forward. I received (out of 125 points) a 123, 121 and a 63! And the marks weren’t the only things that varied! Here are comments I realized.
From the 121 point judge:
Response to overall option: I have the feeling I’ll be seeing this in print before long. Congrats on a wonderful storyline and great characters. You have a unique way of setting up a scene and placing the reader there without bogging us done with details. Nice job!
In response to the judged synopses: This is great! I love the wording and your confidence.
This from the 63 point judge:
Neither of these characters are likable. I’ve already discussed Cassie. Blake truly believes his callous actions are justifiable, but they are not something a HERO would do. Remember that characters are not REALISTIC, but they must be believable. In a romance, the male and female characters are not protagonists; they are called heroes and heroines for a reason. She is an unhappy, judgmental person and that makes the style/voice somewhat uncomfortable for the reader. It’s important that the reader wants to spend time with this character, and that’s just not the case.
Well geez, that’s just great. Thanks for the help. Hey, I don’t mind hearing a strong critique. Bring it on. Did I just seriously waste my money to get both a pat on the back and a smack on the hand? To be truthful, I actually appreciated some of the things that were pointed out. It gave me a moment to pause and consider if I was on the right track with the story. But I got so confused that I have since shelved the entire story.
There is a new contest that I want to enter. Its deadline is fast approaching and on my mind. Will I just be wasting my time and money? Should I even bother? The reason I want to enter is that if I am fortunate enough to proceed onward, final round judge is an agent.
April: I had the opposite problem. Two low scores 55 and 58 and a higher score 88 out of 100. I had entered erotic romance and they had to collapse the category and put it in paranormal. Considering the number one comment was, “I’m not sure who the hero is?” and my story was a ménage, I somehow don’t think the category switch worked well for me.
Scorer 88 loved my story and was dying to read more – since I’ve had several people read the story now and they all agree, I have to go with her (of course that may just be my own stubbornness bleeding through.) Scorer 55 showed so much disdain for my story I believe she stopped reading after only eight pages, that or her comments were so acerbic that the people running the contest deleted them.
Interestingly, I had the same conflict and confusion – I haven’t tried to do anything else with that story. A. Because I felt for awhile that it must suck and B. Because I’m unsure what comments to take and which ones should be thrown out with the bathwater.
But while the contest itself put me at a standstill with that story, it really gave me a wake-up call. In short, I thought I had come a long way since getting serious about writing a year and a half earlier (two years ago now) but I still had so much to learn. Things I had thought I’d gotten the hang of—weren’t as good as I thought. I had problems with POV, character development, start of story, hooks and dialogue tags.
Those are things I would have just continued to get wrong. Much of the comments were more a kick in my butt to do better, to dig deeper.
I admit. I shed a few tears. I was confused. I questioned whether I could create something worthwhile (I still struggle with this). And while I really thought I’d nailed it, I now realize I had some fundamental issues that most people find hard to pin down… for example, several of my past stories left people with a ho-hum… it was OK feeling.
Those comments, coming from anonymous sources that could care less about my ego, found the weaknesses that I couldn’t see.
So overall my opinion is that contests are excellent places to take your ego. If you’re good, you’ll get an ego boost. If you’re not, well get ready to get hammered. And sometimes that’s just what you need. It will also get you used to receiving lots of comments and crits (good and the bad).
At the same time, the story is still yours for the telling. In the end, you have to decide what suggestions to take and which ones are crap.
Kendal: I’d love to hear others thoughts on contests. Help change my mind! Tell me your good experiences.
I think that the idea of using a contest for an anonymous and thus honest critique is interesting, because it allows me to rationalize the $ spent even if I don’t win. *grin*
I’ve never entered a contest with unpublished work. At least, not the kind being discussed here. I’ve won awards, certainly…but those were with work already published by Phaze. Honest and biting criticism is something I consider good for me…but I had already had my skin thickened before I ventured out into the contest world.
Will I ever enter a contest with an unfinished work? I seriously doubt it. I am too mindful of the dilemma discussed above. I have enough unfinished works already.
Will,
Definitely, you have to have a finished piece when you enter… Have the book done or you will never get it done.
My one and only contest entry was finished but due to comments, thoughts… etc from the contest, I had a chance to look back at it and I need some major revision to get it ready.
But good point – I entered the Knight Agency Contest. They stated only finished mss should be entered. Thank goodness mine was done and sparkling already… because even with that, I spent another three weeks prepping it once I won the contest.
I would think there’s nothing more embarrassing than winning a contest and having an unfinished book… you have the opportunity to put something in front of an agent or publisher and you just flubbed the opportunity.
NOT GOOD….
Aprl
Of course you knew I’d show up right? Contest junkie queen extraordinaire?
You both bring up good points, but since I’m representing the YAY! Contests crowd, I’m going to present the hard line. (I’m much nicer than this usually, but the smackdown has me going at it UFC style)
Better that a contest make you cry than an agent/editor. Actually, they won’t even take the time to hurt you — they’ll just form reject and leave it at that. And you’ll be wondering why the pages never go anywhere. 90% of judges aren’t doing it to be mean — you just don’t know them so their words sound harsh.
Reality is harsh!
I’ve been through the pain of low scores. I’ve had my characters and writing thrashed. What did I do? PAY ATTENTION TO THE JUDGE THAT DOESN’T LIKE YOU. Yes, it’s going to take some tough skin to do that, but it’s worth it. Don’t ignore them as “the idiot” who didn’t get you. That’s too easy and you can’t be easy on yourself as a writer.
At some point judges will say things like, “even though I didn’t really like your setting and had doubts about your characters, the writing is really good” and they score you high regardless. I love it when the judge that sounds like they’re putting me through the wringer only takes away only a handful of points. There will always be people who just don’t like what you do — but when the majority can’t deny that you’re a good writer — that’s when you win (and i’m not talking about the contest win)
Why do I enter contests? Because critiquing services can cost $100 for just the first several chapters. Contests cost $30 bucks for usually 3 critiques and a chance to hook an editor. And my CP is harsh, but she gets my writing. I want to know how to win over the people who don’t get it.
I’ve entered a few contests, and this is what I’ve gleaned:
It depends on the contest. If it is a contest where you pay a fee in exchange for a subscription, then it’s more of a subscription grab than a contest. If you’re paying a fee for a very small prize, then it’s a money grab. If a contest fee is required, and any of the prizes — even for runner-ups or honorary mentions — is publication without payment, then the submitter is basically *paying* for the *honour* of being published – which is just wrong. And if no one has ever heard of this contest, then it’s not going to do you any good when submitting work to paying markets, anyway.
On the other hand, a contest which has a reasonable prize amount for the fee (say, at least 10X the amount of the fee); where all published winners are paid, whether or not they win a prize; where the contest is well-known enough that publishing people will be impressed at your win — these are worthwhile entering. Otherwise, you’re just throwing money away.
Chi!!! ahem… Jeannie!!!!
I’m so glad you came by. I knew you could give us a good perspective since you’re the Queen of Contests. (You know they do have a crown for that!!!! Oh… sorry… no they don’t but if they did, you’d deserve it.)
I know from the last few years watching you that the contests have really helped you. Each time I hear from you about a contest, you do a little better and I’m so excited to see that. Now, that’s real progress.
And I agree. You can’t beat the crits for the money you put out for entry. It gets you out there where you’re laid bare. An editor or agent won’t give you that kind of time and objective comment.
To be honest, yeah I’d like to win but I entered my first contest really for the comments and crit. I think if you go into these contests with that intention – of bettering yourself… rather than JUST getting a win… than you’ll get much more out of a contest.
Thanks for coming by. I like how you think and you’re such a hard worker!!!! You’re advice and thoughts are always appreciated.
April
BJ,
I think I know what kind of contests you’re discussing. I think there are a lot of those for short stories and poetry. I definitely agree with a lot of what you’re saying–those kinds of contests can gobble up your work and keep you from earning anything off of them while lining the pockets of someone else.
However, most of the contests that I’ve seen for romance novels usually are NOT to publish your work. Instead, they have a base fee, say $35 for entry. You submit the first three chapters of your book (or first 25 pages) and they have three judges. The judges will critique your work and award you a point score. If you win, usually you win a crit from an agent or publisher which indeed is a great prize.
There are also contests for published works or whole books – LIke the RITA and Golden Heart. These cost money to enter and while there may be other perks the biggest is being given the award and being able to call yourself a RITA winner or Golden Heart winner on your promo stuff.
In both cases, they don’t own your work. Usually they’ll just menion your name as the winner with a blurb about your story. The promotion could get your book sold.
I would stay away from the kinds of contests you mention though.
April
I entered a few contests in my ‘younger days’ and either did really well or got completely trashed (usually in the same contest) I eventually worked out that this was a good thing because judges were reacting to my voice.
The same thing happens now I’m published, readers either love me or don’t-and that’s something you just have to suck up and deal with.
And I agree with Jeannie-some of the best feedback I had from contest judges at first seemed negative and yet when I let it lie a little and got over myself, I realized that quite often they had a point. And even if I ultimately didn’t agree with that point, it made me believe in my own writing and how I wanted it to be.
On the other hand you don’t want to try and be everything to every judge. I judge and the worst kind of entries are the ones that are technically perfect but all the individual spark and voice has been edited out to please everyone. Better to fail loudly and go down hard than to be mediocre.
Kate,
Exactly – give me one rabid fan out of three people and one guy who absolutely hates me… and I’m good. That’s why I loved my 88 point score… I knew I’d hit an audience who found me better than mediocre and could with some improvement in my own writing bring her in as a huge fan.
She made my day… the other two… well, they didn’t make my day back then but today I’m very grateful to them for pointing out my issues.
Of course, knowing you… I’m taking notes on which contests your judging… because i know I’ll get some great comments from you!
April
I just started entering contests this year. I agree with you, April, I think you should have a competed mss before entering. I got my results back from the first one I entered, and though I didn’t move into the final round, I did get some valuable feedback. My scoresheets were pretty much middle of the road – nothing terrrible but nothing stellar either. I take it as a learning opportunity. And I see contests as a test run. I figure if I can take the negative and positive feedback from a contest, then I can handle rejections from editors/agents. And like Kate said, even contest judges will either love it or hate it, just like and agent or a reader.
I feel very fortunate that I’m able to stay home and write fulltime. I really can’t think of something else I’d rather be doing. I love the flexibiilty. If something comes up socially, I can and often do commit. I adore my freedom; if I’m not feeling well (bad cold has got me down) or I need to leave for a doctor appointment, I can choose to not write for a while without having to “get permission”.
I’ve done the fulltime work thing for years and can’t say I miss the clothes buying, the bumper-to-bumper traffic, or a crowded bus. Maybe I’m a recluse or just easy to please.
Keta Diablo
http://ketaskeep.blogspot.com
If it’s any consolation, I can see now that the closer I became to getting published, the more wildly variant my scores were in contests–that’s why it’s always good to enter contests where the lowest score will be tossed out. And as Kate says–or one of the Kates, do you have to have a Kate variant name to post here?–it’s all about voice and the judges’ reaction to it.
Lots of writers, me included, have sold mss. that were totally creamed in contests. Contests are their own strange subculture and you can’t take them as having all that much to do with what editors and agents are really looking for. On the other hand winning is fun particularly if you get a cash prize or some real interest from an editor.
Cate,
I’m still waiting on the rest of Broken!!!! When am I getting that??? You should enter that into a contest. Maybe you’ll get some interest from an editor.
April
Keta,
I”m glad you’re enjoying being an author…Have you ever entered a contest though?
April
Janet,
You do not have to be a Cate or Kate or Katey… or any variation on Kathy to post a comment :>
You make an excellent point. Contests are great for learning what is and what isn’t working technique and audience wise. HOWEVER, a contest isn’t really any indication of what is selling and what will be bought.
Case in point… I’ve heard of many contest winners that simply can’t sell their winning mss.
So a win does not mean you will bag the attention of that editor or agent. But it looks awfully pretty under your name :>
April